When Constantius was on the throne and Eusebius and Hypatius were Consuls, there was composed, under the pretext of unity and faith,(,19. pp. Likewise the angel of Thyatira is rebuked (ib. In Africa the same practice had been sanctioned early in the third century, but it seems to have fallen into disuse long before Cyprian's time. And if that is not enough, because owing to the time that has elapsed they are but few, and it is impossible for witnesses to be everywhere, if we read the acts and names of the bishops of the Council of Nicæa, we find that those who we saw just now were welcomed back, did subscribe the homoousion along with the rest.L. [4091] The Macedonians, who became nearly co-extensive with the Semi-Arians about 360, held that the Spirit not being very' God must be a creature and therefore a Servant of God. wisdom literature have any validity for us? L. Were Arians really then received after all? There is another argument which I shall adduce, and against that not even Hilary.27. If a bishop lays his hands on men he lays them on those who have been baptized in the right faith, and who have believed that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are three persons, but one essence. "The salt," says the Luciferian (5), "which has lost its savour cannot be salted," and, "What communion has Christ with Belial?" There he ordained Paulinus, the leader of the latter section, as bishop of the Church. And since the man is now dead, inasmuch as he was a deacon and could ordain no one to follow him, his sect died with him. There is a real difference, he says (12), between the man who in his simplicity accepts baptism from an Arian bishop, and the bishop himself who understands the heresy. I will teach you therefore in the same spirit. All the paths of your propositions lead to the same meeting-point, and it is with you as with the frightened deer — while you fly from the feathers fluttering in the wind, you become entangled in the strongest of nets. Before I can be a disciple, I must hear one preach whom I feel to be my master.O. Please take a minute to review our.Sorry, but we can't respond to individual comments.Your feedback helps us make Walmart shopping better for millions of customers.We’re having technical issues, but we’ll be back in a flash.Sorry, this webpage requires JavaScript to function correctly.Please enable JavaScript in your browser and reload the page.Good news — You can still get free 2-day shipping, free pickup, & more.Oops—it’s past time for NextDay delivery by tomorrow.We moved your item(s) to Saved for Later.Oops! and we have not verified it.Send me an email when my question is answered,We're committed to providing low prices every day, on everything. O. a.d. L. I beseech you lay aside the methods of the philosophers and let us talk with Christian simplicity; that is, if you are willing to follow not the logicians, but the Galilean fishermen. [4131] a.d. 328, when Athanasius was consecrated bishop. I receive an,O. When all were seated, Helladius the Luciferian said, I want an answer first to my question. The point in dispute is not merely whether a bishop is incapable of penitence and a layman capable, but whether a heretic has received valid baptism. He energetically took up the cause of the saint, and at his own request was sent by Liberius, bishop of Rome, in company with the priest Pancratius and the deacon Hilarius, on a mission to the Emperor Constantius. He was born at Stridon, a village near Emona on the border of Dalmatia and Pannonia. Still it is one thing, he says, (3) to admit a penitent neophyte, another to admit a man to be bishop and celebrate the Eucharist. All returned in gladness to their own provinces. (of not holding communion with heretics). If you remember what has been said you would know that you have been already answered; but in yielding to the love of contradiction you have wandered from the subject, like those persons who are talkative rather than eloquent, and who, when they cannot argue, still continue to wrangle. I drop my hands in token of submission. The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary. Are the,Orthodoxus. If they are not Christ's, they belong to the,O. Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: Series II/Volume VI/Treatises/The Dialogue Against the Luciferians. [4129] Eudoxius was deposed from the bishopric of Antioch by the Council of Seleucia, a.d. 359; but the immediate predecessor of Euzoius was Meletius, deposed a.d. 361. What did he believe? L. The account I used before to hear given of these things was widely different, and, as I now think, better calculated to promote error than hope. He is best known for his translation of most of the Bible into Latin, and his commentaries on the Gospels. The confirmation which follows (9) is rather a custom of the churches than the necessary means of grace.The argument is felt to be approaching to a philosophical logomachy (10, 11), but it is resumed by the Luciferian. You have settled a great question in three words, as the saying is, and indeed while you speak, I feel that I am on your side. Christ's powerful opponent, forsooth, gave over to him the.16. [4149] Jerome here reproduces almost exactly the remark of Pseudo-Tertullian. Though he received ordination from Paulinus, who had been consecrated by Lucifer, he had no sympathy with Lucifer's narrower views, as he shows plainly in this Dialogue. I shall perhaps be tedious in my explanation, but it is worth while if the truth gains.22. If you grant forgiveness to the erring, I too pardon the penitent. Please include your email address if you'd like a reply.Grow your general knowledge with Booko: 1423 QI Facts to Bowl You Over,Grow your general knowledge with Booko: How Food Works.Booko is reader-supported. If they are not Christ's, they belong to the devil.O. Make what statements you please, argue as you please, you will never convince me that a penitent bishop should be treated like a penitent layman.O. For he declared that the world belonged to the devil, and, as is commonly said by them at the present day, that the Church was turned into a brothel. But will you be so good as to fully explain to me, not in the character of an opponent but of a disciple, why it is that the Church receives those who come from the Arians? If you argue, you have already had an answer. They roamed about the country in bands of both sexes, and struck terror into the peaceable inhabitants. Saint Jerome was a Christian priest, confessor, theologian, and historian. You must not suppose that victory rests with you only. He gives you eyes, and are you blind? Noah's ark was a type of the Church, as the Apostle Peter says-(,23. Make what statements you please, argue as you please, you will never convince me that a penitent bishop should be treated like a penitent layman.O. O. As we have made mention of that distinguished saint, let us show also from his Apocalypse that repentance unaccompanied by baptism ought to be allowed valid in the case of heretics. Seeing, therefore, that at that time three hundred bishops or more welcomed a few men whom they might have rejected without injury to the Church, I am surprised that certain persons, who are certainly upholders of the faith of Nicæa, are so harsh as to think that,21. writings of the Old Testament, commenting upon the original Hebrew text, and showing a complete mastery of all the literature of the Church on the ...Changes we are experiencing in society seem to be unprecedented. I do not think that those who form our audience are so ignorant of the sacred books that many words are needed to settle this little question. Luciferianism became extinct in the beginning of the following century, if not earlier. The personality of the Holy Ghost appears to have been denied. And then, if they are rejected, we become the cause of their destruction.O. Enter prices below and click 'Add'. Add an alert Add to a list. Wherefore we do right both in welcoming the penitent layman, and in rejecting the bishop, if he wishes to continue in his office.O. Constantius, for the purpose of wearying out the orthodox bishops (Sulpitius Severus says: E.H.., ii, 41), delayed allowing the bishops home, keeping them there for several months until they finally accepted the Sirmian Creed. Just select the list below, and click 'Add'.If you have noticed an incorrect price, image or just something you'd like to tell us, enter it below. The emperor granted a Council, which met at Milan in a.d.354. Dialogue Against the Luciferians, St. Jerome, W.H. a.d. 200), Noetius (a.d. 220), Sabellius (a.d. 225), Beryllus and Paul of Samosata (circ. [4114] Principium, the equivalent of the Greek 'Arche, which means beginning, or principle, or power. He believed and was baptized in accordance with his faith.O. I won't allow strength any longer to be overcome by artifice. Cyprian of blessed memory tried to avoid broken cisterns and not to drink of strange waters: and therefore, rejecting heretical baptism, he summoned his,24. Your memory has served you, and you have certainly given us at great length many quotations from the sacred books: but after going all round the wood, you are caught in my hunting-nets. But you say, a bishop could not have been mistaken. For many other observances of the Churches, which are due to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law, as for instance(,9. Suppose a person were to deny that they were welcomed back, how is he to be refuted?O. There is no declamation in the case; my indignation is more than I can bear. This Dialogue was written about 379, seven years after the death of Lucifer, and very soon after Jerome's return from his hermit life in the desert of Chalcis. If he that baptizes a person into our belief has had no injurious effect upon the person baptized, it follows that he who consecrates a bishop in the same faith causes no defilement to the person consecrated. 25. What are we to say about(.O. You have settled a great question in three words, as the saying is, and indeed while you speak, I feel that I am on your side. If he confesses his error why does he continue a bishop? 342. Add a alert. What do we mean by saying that John in his baptism could not give the Holy Spirit to others, yet gave him to Christ? If you repent of your sin, abandon your priestly functions: if you are shameless in your sin, remain what you were.O. The spear then which you have hurled with all your might and about which you speak such threatening words, I turn aside, as the saying is, with my little finger. Heresy is subtle, and therefore the simple-minded are easily deceived. But why, when you swallow food which he has seasoned, do you reproach the seasoned with being saltless? [4088] This ceremony together with the kiss of peace and white robes probably dated from very early times. You repel my attack in front with vigour and firmness: but you are smitten in the rear and leave your back exposed to the darts. Fremantle, “The Dialogue Against the Luciferians” in NPNF 2, vol. I will now proceed to the second and maintain that a layman coming from the Arians ought to be received if penitent, but not a cleric.O. Nay, rather, "Repent therefore,",25. L. I beseech you lay aside the methods of the,O. Bright, p. Will you point out how, after the Council of Nicæa, they relapsed into their unfaithfulness?O. O. one of the most influential ecclesiastical figures of the 4th century. [4124] Bishop of Vercellae in N. Italy. Your Church is bright with his flame, and do you accuse his lamp of being extinguished? [4133] This Hilary was a deacon of Rome, sent by Liberius the bishop with Lucifer and Pancratius to the Emperor Constantius. The word diocese was in early times the larger expression, and contained many provinces. There is one other point I should like you to explain. Yet both, it is replied (13), when they are penitent, should be received.At this point (14) the Luciferian yields. A discussion of both it and its companion term hypostasis may be found in Newman's Arians, Appendix p. 432. Let the case be as you would have it, that an,L. Preface to the Chronicle of Eusebius. We receive the laity, because no one will be induced to change, if he knows he must be baptized again. We are then agreed that we must speak of a heretic as we would of a heathen.O. Show me that a layman coming from the Arians has valid baptism, and then I will not deny him penitence. I answer with another question, Are all heretics Christians?L. There is not even a layman among them, how can there be a bishop? I answer with another question, Are all heretics Christians?L. He says of Pammachius and of himself (Letter xlv., 3) that many people thought them digni sacerdotio, meaning the Bishopric of Rome. The Dialogue Against the Luciferians. If you argue, you have already had an answer. But how shall I describe your habit of applying the laws of the Church to heretics, and of exposing the virgin entrusted to you in the brothels of harlots? But are they? Cyprian of blessed memory tried to avoid broken cisterns and not to drink of strange waters: and therefore, rejecting,24. Now it is decided that heretics are heathen, put any question you please.L. See Robertson's Hist. But, it is replied, the bishop gives Christ's baptism and confers the Holy Spirit. You prove him a bishop because you receive those he has baptized. Support and Protection of the Natural World . Yes, says the objector, they are like John the Baptist, whose baptism needed to be followed by that of Christ. O. In that Church and its divisions and practice it is our duty to abide.1. Let the case be as you would have it, that an Arian bishop is the enemy of Christ, let him be the salt that has lost its savour, let him be a lamp without flame, let him be an eye without a pupil: no doubt your argument will take you thus far -- that he cannot salt another who himself has no salt: a blind man cannot enlighten others, nor set them on fire when his own light has gone out. Introduction. If a layman confesses his error, how is it he continues a layman? Does any one receive a penitent heathen?L. When he joined the Arians into what faith was he baptized? And we, replies Orthodoxus, by admitting the bishops save not them only but their flocks also. If you call a man a heretic you deny that he is a Christian.O. This leads to a valuable chapter of Church history. In the sun hath he placed his tabernacle, and there is none who can hide himself from the heat thereof. For seeing that a,7. The fact is you don't know what you are saying. Valens and.20. You who yesterday impiously declared the Son of God to be a creature, you who every day, worse than a Jew, were wont to cast the stones of blasphemy at Christ, you whose hands are full of blood, whose pen was a soldier's spear, do you, the convert of a single hour, come into the Church as an adulterer might come to a virgin? What I wanted to elicit by my question has been expressly stated, namely, that,L. You are quite a rhetorician, and fly from the thicket of controversy to the open fields of declamation. [4050] That is, of Jupiter, whose temple was in the Capitol. You are not dealing quite fairly: you wish me to be your teacher on the terms that you may treat me as an opponent whenever you please. By this Council it had been determined that actual Arians, if they renounced their heresy, should be pardoned, but not invested with ecclesiastical functions; and that those bishops who had merely consented to Arianism should remain undisturbed. He held that Jesus and the Christ were not the same person; Jesus was, he said, a real man, the son of Joseph and Mary; the Christ was an emanation which descended upon Jesus at his baptism to reveal the Most High, but which forsook him before the Passion. When all were seated, Helladius the Luciferian said, I want an answer first to my question. O. [4150] The name Pharisee implies separation, but in the sense of dedication to God. Book III. If you say, he sincerely believed in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and therefore obtained baptism, what, let me ask, is the meaning of being sincerely ignorant of what one believes? You surrender your camp to the enemy, and are we to reject one of their deserters?11. And if that is not enough, because owing to the time that has elapsed they are but few, and it is impossible for witnesses to be everywhere, if we read the acts and names of the bishops of the Council of Nica, we find that those who we saw just now were welcomed back, did subscribe the.L. But since you who raise your sword against me are the son of my womb, and nourished on the milk of my breasts, return to me what I gave you, and be, if you can, a Christian in some other … A good suggestion, for unbelievers are in the habit of shutting their eyes and denying that things which they dislike ever happened. It has been pointed out above that Lucifer of Cagliari, who had been banished from his see in the reign of Constantius because of his adherence to the cause of Athanasius, had, on the announcement of toleration at the accession of Julian (361), gone to Antioch and consecrated Paulinus a bishop. You repel my attack in front with vigour and firmness: but you are smitten in the rear and leave your back exposed to the darts. Against the Pelagians. Died about a.d. 370. This Dialogue was written about 379, seven years after the death of Lucifer, and very soon after Jerome’s return from his hermit life in the desert of Chalcis. You are conqueror. Why should they not be received, as all but the authors of heresy had been received at Nicaea? In that Church and its divisions and practice it is our duty to abide.1. Introduction.
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